My Identical Twin
This was about three weeks ago.
My shadchan called me one day screaming into my ear
“I have found him! – Your identical twin! This guy is just like you!”
Hmmm, I thought skeptically, my identical twin. Now, how interesting is that?
I mean, there is *one* of me, which is clearly way too many anyway, and heaven knows they don’t need another one running around the shidduch scene.
I mean, my Gd, only the thought of it makes me want to do something extremely violent.
But I was fascinated – someone like me? Out there? Why not give it a go?
So we met, some hotel lobby of course, and by first impression, he passed the test- I mean, he didn’t spit all over my shidduch-outfit as he said his name . Always a good start.
That’s really something you can base a marriage upon.
He was Israeli. But he knew English. It was very important for him that I’ll internalise this profound fact. He knows English.
So whenever I said something and used a Latin word, he stopped everything and translated it into Hebrew, as if I didn’t know what I’ve just said, to show me that he has in fact fully understood the concept, though it wasn’t Hebrew, but that he was totally educated and Westernised, which I thought was rather silly, I mean, the guy was properly repeating every second word I was saying with his horrible fake American accent only to make sure that I wouldn’t be the only person in this enlightening conversation using foreign words. Can’t let that happen. And he added a rather patronising tone to it all, as if his MOTHER owns the English language and I should have asked for her permission first before daring to use it in front of him.
I was getting more and more annoyed with him.
Anyway, he asked me if I’ve seen a certain holocaust film that came out a while ago. When my answer came to the affirmative he asked me, So, with which character did you identify with the most?
Now, this film only had three basic characters which were The Jewish Guy, yet Another Jewish Guy, and an SS Officer.
Not a lot to choose from.
I answered the SS Officer, only to show him how ridiculous his question really was. I mean, come on, what IS this question anyway? It’s a holocaust film!
But he looked at me with these big eyes, wide open with shock and disappointment, and said that if a Jew says something like that, well, just look where the world has got to. Disgrace.
I decided to just shut up and use the time we have left together to look for split ends in my hair.
I didn’t feel like speaking anymore. I wanted him to talk. So I asked him about his home town. Just a silly question.
He took my question with all the gravity due to it, and began telling me about the founders of the place, the first settlers who came there 72 years ago, how they started building it all from scratch, with their bare hands and how people, striving for a goal, can really achieve… look at our strong nation, he cried. Just look at us Israelis! How we have triumphed!
I fell asleep.
I woke up ten minutes later and he was still talking about his home town’s north side, population, geographical facts and aerial location on the world map.
My Identical Twin. I couldn’t decide if I was merely insulted, or if there was really something to start worrying about here.
An hour had passed. I didn’t say a single word since the SS incident and I guess he was getting tired of hearing himself using highly sophisticated Latin words and not getting any feedback, so he suggested that we leave this hotel lobby and go to this Internet Café just around the corner, to check emails.
This guy was truly exciting. I mean, my heart was just pounding with the adventure of it all.
But it made me happy. He wanted to go.
I said sure, but you know, I have got my internet at home really, I can check my emails there.
He asked me if he can come and check his emails too. AT MY PLACE. I was so certain he was kidding, so I said No, but you can come and watch me use the computer. I mean as dumb as this guy was, he would surely know that I was joking.
He didn’t.
He started walking me home. I was all quiet and developing an enormous headache.
We got to where I live, and only then I realised that he was all serious, like, he really thought he could come here and check his mail and WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE.
For pity’s sake.
I told him he couldn’t come in.
He was all surprised.
He was even slightly irritated that he had to walk me all the way home and only then find out that he’s not really invited to come in.
I don’t entertain men in my flat, sorry.
I think he was offended. I’m not sure, it was hard to tell, because five seconds later I was in my cosy apartment, checking my mail, leaving him in mid-sentence outside my door.
February 3rd, 2003 01:18
So now we know the real u…. twins…
Do u remember the Seinfeld episode about his identical twin-date. Begins with “oh, she is perfect, I love myself”. Ends with the regular Elaine-conffesion: “I can’t stand her, u know I hate myself!!!”
February 3rd, 2003 03:08
where do you find these guys???
February 3rd, 2003 03:16
Was it schindlers list?
February 3rd, 2003 03:39
NO comment… just saying hi! 🙂
February 3rd, 2003 06:12
She, I think I have found the common denominator in all you shidduch woes.
You simply don’t investigate your guys thoroughly enough.
You are taken for a ride mamish every time you go out, which is not normal. You must start becoming the brutal Shin-Bet/FBI type and refuse to go out with anyone until you’ve spoken to enough people who can vouch for the guy’s credibility and normalcy.
I don’t understand how you get set up with so many loonies. This is just not normal. Something in your “investigation” system is flawed. I have many friends out on shidduch, and their failures are usually on a lack to communicate, feel chemistry, etc. No one keeps getting stuck with loonies. Something must be wrong here! Don’t you think?
February 3rd, 2003 09:44
I don’t think you realise the complications. The Ba’al Teshuva world isn’t the nice little frum one, where you have your frum parents to take care of everything for you, make all the researches and all that is left for you to do is simply to go out and see whether you like the other person.
I can research here, sure. Only, *where* exactly?
His Rabbi who knows him for maybe 1.5 years? His mother? His friends who’ll always tell me only the wonderful things?
There are many loose ends, the guy did Teshuva a while ago and the only information I may have, will only concern this time after he came to be frum. What happened before that? What was he like? Was he any normal? Who knows? No one.
So I found out it’s just best to go out and see for yourself, for everyone will try to sell him anyway saying he’s got it all, I can trust no one here, sorry to say.
I’ve spoken with Rabbis who told me wonderful things about the guy in question, and in retrospect, they had absolutely no idea what they’re talking about, they’ll say the guy is nice and educated even if he’s a total freak just to get him married.
It may be horrible to say, but too true, there isn’t much sense of responsibility going around.
Just don’t forget that here we don’t have Mommy and Daddy to do the dirty job for us.
*I’m doing so well with the Apostrophes.
February 3rd, 2003 11:13
One thing u can tell for sure. If he is a ba’al teshuva he is NOT normal. I’m frum. I know it. Why do it?????????
Now really, it is something to appreciate.
🙂
February 3rd, 2003 15:23
I completely agree with She on this – when you are a baal teshuvah you get set up with the weirdos. You don’t have your family behind you to call every person your date has ever known and even if you did, you don’t get a true picture, you just get, “Oh, they are so spiritual and want someone they can grow with.” Keep plugging away, and IY’H, you will find a guy who is not a freak soon. Good luck!
February 3rd, 2003 17:44
“I decided to just shut up and use the time we have left together to look for split ends in my hair.”
One of the reasons I love this site is the hidden pearls of exposition. For an English as second (or third) language, this is astoundingly vivid.
She, you’ve done it again.
Keep it up, so I can work my way through the alphabet.
February 3rd, 2003 21:59
*blush*
Thank you…
February 3rd, 2003 22:40
In reference to having “found the common denominator” comment, I am reminded of http://www.despair.com/demotivators/dysfunction.html
Of course, I’m not implying anything. Just saying I was reminded of it. Oh yes. It was my favourite from last year.
>>
February 3rd, 2003 23:13
i dont know…
sort of a catch 22 situation… you cant find out about him yet you will date dumb freaky boys till youre blue in the face…
basically, dont let it get to you. you are strong and beautiful and you will find him.
love you-know-who (yes, me she)
February 3rd, 2003 23:31
Back to the thread on Ba’alei Teshuva getting totally screwed over in shidduchim . . .
A while back I was on the phone with an ex-shidduch who I desperately want to see get married, mainly so he’ll (hopefully) stop drooling at me every time I pass him by. The main purpose of the call was to follow-up on a date he’d had the week before, to see if this guy was *finally* going to get hitched and stop ogling the ezras noshim every Shabbos.
Keep in mind that he’s been frum for about 7 years now; me, about four and a half. What follows below is our conversation verbatim.
Me: So how’d your date with XXXX go?
Him: I don’t think she’s frum enough for me.
Me: Why do you think that?
Him: Well, she was ba’alas teshuva quite recently, even more recent than you.
Me: Well, then she’s practically right off the boat! (Dripping with sarcasm, or so I thought.) What makes you think she’s not frum enough for you?
Him: Well, her shirt was rather low cut.
Me: Maybe she didn’t get up to the chapter in Oz ve’Hadar Levusha that deals with shirts yet. Maybe she’s still on the skirt chapter.
Him: Well, I don’t exactly mean “low,” so much as “tight.”
Me: Anything else?
Him: She started keeping kosher a little to recently for my tastes.
Me: So basically, this girl’s only problem is that she became frum at the precise same age that you did . . . only for her, that age is very recently, whereas for you it was seven years ago?
Him: Well, uhhh, what do you think I should do?
Me: You’re definitely wasting your time. If a girl hasn’t been frum for at least four years she’s not worth the effort. (Again I thought the sarcasm’d ring through loud and clear. But I was clearly mistaken . . .)
Him: You know, you’re right. You’re really right.
I just sat there holding the phone, stunned, for about a half a minute. This guy was, for me, the shidduch that I compared all other shidduchim too. Great tzaddik. Amazing ba’al hesed. But clearly a dork.
Two glaring things I picked up from this conversation. First, while we all know that FFB’s have much higher “stock” than a BT ever will (unless they’re the rare BT who became frum at the age of 2, or something, when their parents became religious). But clearly there’s a pecking order among BTs too. The more recently you were chozer b’teshuva, the more likely that an “old time” BTer is going to look down on you for doing the same exact things they did when you were their age. Second, you can never shake off a frei upbringing. Because a good, sweet girl makes the grievous error of eating out of her parent’s refrigerator when she was growing up and didn’t know any better, and did teshuva and went to Neve, Midreshet Rochel (or another frum BT seminary after) she’s inherently inferior to a girl that went to her town’s BY franchise and then shipped out to BJJ, Hadar or B’nos Chava after graduation. At least, she is in the eyes of a guy who wants to “marry up” in the religious world.
In all fairness, I’m sure there are girls out there who wouldn’t date davka because he went to Ohr Somayach or Aish. But I do think it’s terribly sad when you know that even BTs will look down on each other . . . especially when every FFB boy I’ve gone out with has had nothing but the most tremendous respect for what I’ve done with my life. Surprisingly it’s only the BTs who chide me.
February 4th, 2003 00:23
As always an entertaining story, but it used to be alot easier to read with white on black, what’s up with all the black and white anyhow..seems way too yeshivish, how bout some nice colors thrown in there.
February 4th, 2003 00:52
As a marginally normal frum guy, I’m generally impressed by ba’alei t’shuva (how’s my transliteration?). For one, they have the dedication to actually choose to be frum. They also tend to be interesting people who’ve had actual experiences, read all sorts of awful things (Plato? Nietzsche?), listened to all sorts of awful things, and so forth.
February 4th, 2003 01:36
I suppose I’ll continue dating BT’s, although I believe 95% are either complete nutters or floating in a world of delusions.
I’m not looking down at them, but that’s the reality I came to see.
And still I’d rather to go out with them.
I’m simply looking for someone I can relate to in the sense of, well, you wouldn’t believe the amount of junk I have in my head, my past isn’t erased, it isn’t only the things I don’t do anymore, or do differently now, my past has formed my way of viewing at the world, whether I like it or not.
I want to feel belonged and not be considered as a freak simply because I have connotations that may seem completely wild and context-free to someone who isn’t a BT.
Basically.
* Shim – it seems suitable for such a cheerful year, indeed.
Oh, and I’ve enabled the HTML on comments, so it can link directly now. I’m so talented it’s intimidating. Watch me go.
February 4th, 2003 02:13
It’s not just Ba’alei Teshuva who are set up with weirdos. I’m FFB and can completely identify with many of She’s experiences. And I check the guys out, too. It’s just that you’re only given names of his friends/teachers/relatives who are trying to get the guy married off, so he’s always the greatest thing since sliced bread. When you see them after you meet the guy, they’re apologetic (“oh, I didn’t realize that the fact that he’s on anti-psychotic medication would bother you!”–yes, that actually happened) or else avoid you.
February 4th, 2003 03:34
Me the FFB – Whoever got told that bit about “oh I didn’t realize that the fact that he’s on anti-psychotic medication would bother you!” should consider themself pretty lucky. We all know horror stories about people who didn’t find that sort of thing out until after the chasunah.
Incidentally, I once went out with a guy who, over the course of time, told me that the “relationship” he’d had with a prior girlfriend was actually considered by everyone who knew him and her to be rape. He didn’t consider it rape, mind you, but everyone else did. And, from the facts as he laid them down before me (and presuming that those facts would be biased in his own favor) I’d have to agree with the majority on that one.
But after he saw how poorly I reacted to the news, he decided to not tell the future girls he’d date until after he was married. Now, I can assure you, I dated the guy about eighteen months after his relationship with her ended, and after some pretty serious therapy and anti-depressants (which he often skipped b/c they affected his alchohol tolerance), and he still had a *lot* of manipulative and pressuring behavior that one stereotypically sees in someone pressuring and forcing sex. Only in the aftermath of his relevation did the pieces suddenly come together for me. And the fact that he’d now decide to withhold this golden key from future shidduchim, because it could damage his stock, is truly terrifying.
Of course, one can also see the same exact phenomenon in non-frum dating, too. It’s really neither here nor there.
February 4th, 2003 03:37
you know what sucks? i wish i could read this and say “ha! in the modern orthodox world, we don’t have shidduchim, and everything works out better!” but that would be a total lie.
and truth be told, even when parents do check out shidduchim extensively, i’ve seen friends get screwed over, in horrible marriages (and ultimately divorces). the anti-psychotic medication – happened to a good friend of mine, now divorced with a child, having a tough time re-marrying.
ah, but do i have a point here? i think it’s one we all know – that we have to learn to judge people by who they are, and not by the outside bits that really mean v little. oh! check out this site… http://www.EndTheMadness.org
ok, i’m done with my mini-manifesto, and She – he’s out there, i promise. (yes, i know these things)
February 4th, 2003 05:21
Oh, Chani, that was absolutely terrifying. Your last comment just summed up my consistent fear of getting married to someone who may turn out to be just like that.
And it happens all the time.
My friend got divorced after two weeks because her husband, who now isn’t frum anymore btw, sexually abused her to bits.
Happy joy.
But as you’ve said, and it needs to be stressed, it may be exactly the same with non-frum dating.
February 4th, 2003 18:19
I‘ve been following this the last few days but Ive been so busy that I wasn’t able to add anything to the conversation. I’m sure you missed me J
“The Ba’al Teshuva world isn’t the nice little frum one, where you have your frum parents to take care of everything for you……simply to go out and see whether you like the other person”
I really really do not agree with this at all. In my community its super hard to find a boy who has even finished high school much less college. A lot of the boys who are “religious” have done lots of stuff that I will never agree with, but parents take the attitude that boys will be boys.. and if we pretend like its not happening then its NOT happening.
I like everyone else here, has heard terrible stories of people getting divorced once they find some terrible secret about their partner a week after they had gotten married. #1 A lot of these issues could have been resolved if they dated their partner for more than a week before they got engaged. #2 For every couple who don’t make it statistically in the United states there is a couple who DOES. If we focus exclusively on the horror stories I don’t think we would ever get married (and this is coming from a girl whose parents went through a messy messy divorce). It seems to me that it is just as important to me for us to focus on what they are doing right as much as what the other couples are doing wrong! It appears to be such a hit and miss affair. Of the couples who do make it I’m sure some of those are people who find they aren’t the great romance but are prepared to work at it instead of throwing the towel in…??
On a funny note, I was thinking about that “Psychologist”from the other post who was searching for their daughter on the internet. A friend of mines mother posted her details on a Jewish dating website without telling her! However because she came from a small community in Israel and was of anglo -saxon origin, she was easily recognizable. She only found out about the posting once people mentioned it to her about seeing it!
BTW This Blue on white colour scheme is hard to read
February 4th, 2003 18:26
..even though I do think its mighty patriotic of you… How about blue background and white writing?
February 4th, 2003 19:59
I’m sorry… still looking for the right shade for it to be nice and readable.
February 4th, 2003 20:47
I agree about the color. In our PowerPoint 101 class, we learned that a dark background with light words was soothing and easier to read, and less likely to cause your listeners to fall asleep. This, of course, was undone by the fact that we used PowerPoint, which seems to make everyone fall asleep.
Just switch the text and background colors!
February 4th, 2003 20:54
I know I’ll eventually crack and switch to the colours of the blog. Only a matter of time.
February 4th, 2003 23:17
Oh… it has been a long day and I am TIRED.
I can’t see straight anymore. YOU choose the colours, dammit. Yes, I like that.
Just go here. Go on. You know you want to.
February 5th, 2003 18:43
oh my….
there are so many colours! i never even knew that there WERE that many colours!
NEVER take that site near an indecisive person…
hmm, namely you she- i think you will have to leave it up to someone like yoz.
February 5th, 2003 19:19
ah.
You obvioulsy have never met Yoz.
>>
February 5th, 2003 23:32
My Yoz… I wouldn’t leave it up to him, although he’s my little tech genius and I believe that the sun shines right out of his face, I’d have to take care of it myself.
February 6th, 2003 02:45
I think She is right. who can a baal tshuva rely on? no one really knows the guy/girl anyway in their yeshive/seminary….. so how can you believe their rabbis, even if they mean well??
February 6th, 2003 02:58
I love this site! and I agree with “U”, about your english. I think it is even better than mine and for me it’s my fisrt (and only) language… :-0)
February 6th, 2003 14:40
____________________________________
Comments on Comments –
Research: In these situations other people will always tell you what they think you want to hear – after all, their opinion might be wrong, and you might love the weirdo… Worse could happen… I think “She” is right – you have to meet the guy yourself – but, for goodness sake, meet him several times BEFORE you even discuss marriage yourselves – two week engagements are not a good idea – for all people, all over the world. Even though these blind dates seem to be purely for the meeting of spouses (or should that be ‘spice’?), as opposed to ‘friends’, it is still wise to discuss other things FIRST.
The terrible stories here, that have led to equally rapid divorces, are really tragic – and ought to have been unnecessary.
English as a second language: I totally agree. English is my first language and I am bowled over by some of “She’s” phrases – like:
……he passed the test – I mean, he didn’t spit all over my shidduch-outfit as he said his name. Always a good start. That’s really something you can base a marriage upon. [And that’s 3 for the price of 1]
……as if his MOTHER owns the English language and I should have asked for her permission first before daring to use it in front of him.
……I mean, come on, what IS this question anyway? It’s a holocaust film!
……I decided to just shut up and use the time we have left together to look for split ends…
……I woke up ten minutes later and he was still talking about his home town’s north side…
……my heart was just pounding with the adventure of it all.
……but you can come and watch me use the computer.
……five seconds later I was in my cozy apartment, checking my mail, leaving him in mid-sentence outside my door.
and, from an earlier post, that I have only just found:
……I must get zere before ze Germanz…… sheer heaven to read this story!
anti-psychotic medication……
Did that REALLY happen, “Me”? – this site gets spookier by the day. What ever happened to ‘normal’ people. Like people who do NOT need to answer their mobile phone in the middle of a date… What can be so urgent all the time. Slow down guys, why don’t you. Enjoy the moment – you can always go back to “She’s” place afterwards and check your emails… (so I’ve heard). And when people interrupt their conversations in order to say important things like: “…and she’s, like, who are you? – And I’m like, Duh!” I wonder whether all these dates ought not to be cancelled for a 12 month ‘cooling-down period.
Anybody who is believed by most everybody else to have committed ‘date-rape’ needs help. If that person subsequently needs to tell other girlfriends how much he still denies it, then he’s getting the wrong kind of help – or else he needs to be avoided at all cost. Maybe, if he stops talking about it (which is a denial of blame and perhaps a cry for redemption, of sorts…), he’ll be able to come to terms with the blame, and deal with the problem… maybe – but it is scary “Chani”.
Now, about this colour scheme – I just get white text on a dark grey ground – not a hint of blue in sight/site… Am I doing something wrong in the browser – I’m not exactly an expert at this web stuff. And both sides of the site are the same – and, if I may say so, very smart. But I want to know what font you use on the blog comments window – this is very neat. Please tell – I want to copy – but will it work on a Mac (don’t worry about the Red Hat Linux…)
One thing that runs through my mind, “She”, when I read your articles. How many women (and men?) are there, in Jerusalem, in the same situation as yourself. For example, if you had two such dates each week, how long would it take to get through them all – and I sincerely hope that never happens!!!
Finally, what turned you off about the ‘laptop poet’? It seemed to me to be a rather nice mix of romance and technology.
I’m working my way through your Archive – now in October – no need to hurry – lots to savour. In FAQ you wrote:
Do you daven? Twice a day, shachris and mincha. I’m being yotze by my husband’s ma’ariv. Ha.
What on earth does that all mean???
Please accept my apologies for this long post – I’m not too good with ‘notes’ – I tried to email direct but it was bounced back to me…
Best wishes – to you and your readers.
Barry.
February 7th, 2003 12:10
you don’t have to answer this if you think it will harm your anonimity but why did you choose to call yourself She and not anything else?
February 7th, 2003 14:40
Um..
I don’t know.. It has been my nickname since high school, my old friends still call me that.
No one’s really sure why.
So this song followed me in high school quite a lot.
She she she she shine on.
And on.
February 9th, 2003 13:20
To be Yotzei means that basically if someone else does an action it is counted as if you also did i.e. when someone makes kiddush
February 9th, 2003 21:55
___________________________________
Hi AsIf,
I presume that that explanation was aimed at me, so, many thanks. Now all I need is: ‘daven’, ‘shachris’, ‘mincha’, and ‘ma’ariv’.
Mind you, it is also fun trying to work it out on my own, but that sentence just floored me.
Regards, Barry.
February 9th, 2003 22:36
Well, daven is a parody poem on the raven. Shachris is derived from ‘shachor’ which means black in Hebrew (the color of the raven), Ma’ariv is a name of an Israeli paper, giving the breaking news about the black attack. and Mincha… well, I’m not sure myself….
Now really, daven means to pray (Yiddish?).
the other three are the three prayers, morning, noon and evening respectively.
February 10th, 2003 17:55
___________________________________
H Snark (nice ‘pen’ name…)
Many thanks to you as well – I’m now working on this one – Can I come back if I have further problems?
Don’t you just love learning new things and new perspectives…
Best regards, Barry.
February 10th, 2003 21:15
Why would anyone want to become a BT and knowingly become part of this crazy excuse for a society?
February 10th, 2003 23:59
shim:
i know this is miles away, ive been away-
but youre right, i dont know yoz.
and while im at it, i find your site very intruiging. long live fish! and your vort things are great….
thats all.
February 11th, 2003 00:19
Oh dear… it reminds me, Yoz has a birthday today. The 11th.
Go ahead, wish him a happy birthday
February 11th, 2003 06:35
Wow. Now I have (almost) complete strangers mailing me and wishing me happy birthday.
Which is quite cool, really. Thank you.
February 11th, 2003 06:36
And the colours are She’s department. I just go “Cool!” or “EEUURRGHH”.
February 11th, 2003 09:28
My birthday is tomorrow. How about that yoz? 🙂
February 11th, 2003 10:13
Okay I think I have hit a new low of singledom. Yesterday an otherwise nice and well meaning women called my house. I answered the phone and she asked to speak to my mother. Apparently some women of the community created this “loshen Horah” group where you could pick a certain every day you could chose not to speak loshen horah but say tehillim instead. Ahha you say, Ive heard of something like that. but there is a TWIST. Apparently, they chose every month a single girl to keep in mind so that hashem should be moved to help them find their zivug and this month apparently if I liked, I too could join (together with my mother) and be nominated as the “single person of the month”. Although I am somewhat flattered (ha!), I think its kind of creepy. Especially since I am 22. Definitely a new low. I’m pretty sure that if I wasn’t already neurotic about the whole situation, this would have sent me over the edge :)! (j/k). Oh well, I thought that I would share this with you..
February 11th, 2003 20:44
And it’s my birthday on Thursday – that seems to make for a lot of Aquarians around here… Hmm…
So, Happy Birthday to all of us!
Best Regards, Barry.
February 11th, 2003 21:38
my birthday’s in sept, everyone mark it down.
happy birthday to y’all!
i hear She’s buying drinks for the house…
February 12th, 2003 02:50
http://www.imaginationatwork.com/Imagine?_nolivecache
Here is a really cool url that someone sent me. Take a look..
February 12th, 2003 17:42
ok my birthday was the 10th of january. happy birthday me, i know.
oh AsIf– happy birthday! many more….
February 13th, 2003 02:04
sorry.. old news.. its been on the website for months, AsIf..
if you’ll just go to the blog, you’ll find it hanging around..
thanks anyways
February 13th, 2003 06:45
Hi folks,
I just bumped into this site and am finding it rather interesting. As a FFB I will say one thing that chazal (our sages) say about BT’s, I bet it’s not news for most of you- but what the heck: B’makom sheh’baalei teshuvah omdim ayn tzadikim gemurim omdim (In the place where BT’s stand, even the most righteous cannot stand). So, for those looking down their noses at BT’s this is to be understood loosely as such; the mere fact that someone took the leap and is a BT, puts them pretty darn high in the pecking order.
About all these many travails that the shidduch seekers have and can go through, stay strong! I’m sure you’ve heard this a million times, but it’s the truth. It’s all ordained, G-d will look after you. After all, chazal say that He spends His time doing just that- arranging shidduchim. In terms of the challenge of it all, they are in agreement with you, “It is as hard as the splitting of the sea”.
February 13th, 2003 14:27
Who here looks down at BT’s? DId I miss something? Okay so maybe you hit a raw nerve but am I supposed to apologize for being FFB? I sometimes feel that a lot of energy and attention is put religiously into BT’s but very little into ppl FFB because people assume that just because they havent gone crazily off the path or made some big statement that all is well.
February 13th, 2003 16:50
Someone had their coffee today. “me2” This site is not about BT vs FFB. “SHE” is pointing out the terrible situation of shiduchim, where you can’t obtain real references, the potential partners have shaddy backgrouds and the people you turn to for guidance (Shadchanim) are not really acting in your best intrests, only in theirs.
All this thinking hurts my head. I’ll shut up now
February 13th, 2003 19:31
ladies and gents,
i think weve hit a sore spot…
i definately dont think this site is AT ALL about BT vs FFB as “D Boy” stated. i think this lovely, super duper site was made to let everyone chill out and forget their own problems while she tells us her endevours in the shidduch world….
am i right, she?
anyway, have fun all of you…. it isnt so serious.:)
February 13th, 2003 20:06
Oh…. I’m only here to supply the low entertainment and the gentle fights material.
February 13th, 2003 22:09
D Boy, you’re probably right, there is way too much brewed Folgers in my veins.
February 14th, 2003 12:34
what are folgers please?
February 14th, 2003 16:54
Folgers is an American brand of coffee.
D-boy, your comment about shaddchanim reminds me of a favorite quote from a movie:
“You know, man, it’s like Lenin said, look to who will benefit, and there…”
“I am the Walrus.”
“you know man”
“I am the Walrus…”
“No! Vladimir Ilyich Ilayanov! VI Lenin, not John Lennon!”
Who can name the movie?
February 14th, 2003 21:49
The big lebowski.
February 18th, 2003 03:17
Speaking of Folgers, I filled one with snow today (clean) from our blizzard here, and put some coffee syrup over it. :/ I dunno, it was a bit too sweet.
Hey what ever happened to that crazy guy on here? What was his name? Some russian name…
February 18th, 2003 09:01
Yuri.
The Man.
I don’t know, just as I was thinking to just eat him and get it over with, he vanished.
Shame.
February 18th, 2003 16:31
I have not made a comment on this story yet due to unforseen circumstances! I moved and could not figure out how to hook my computer up again.
Anyway, I don’t think that it’s a particular “system” that lends itself to being set up with rapists and psychos. It’s how it’s being used. If the shidduch system was utilized in a way that it would be beneficial it would be great. Instead it’s manipulated by idiots who make these shidduch standards that have no basis in halacha anywhere. Like FFB’s being “worth” more than BT’s, yichus meaning a lot more than it has to, only being allowed to date for 50 seconds and then not being able to see each other during your engagement, etc. It’s just another way for people to show off their chumrot like one would show off their BMW. If that attitude isn’t thoroughly secular I don’t know what is.
February 18th, 2003 22:23
i thoroughly agree.
February 19th, 2003 01:36
Not being able to see each other during the engagement? That’s not most engagements that I know, I believe it’s only done in very Hasidic circles. Of course if that is a chumra you believe in- kol hakavod, but if that bothers you- don’t date that crowd. It’s not as if that is prevalent throughout Orthodoxy.
February 19th, 2003 04:32
I typed too fast. I meant to say that lots of frummies limit the time they’re together when they’re engaged. It’s the new chumra that’s come into vogue.
February 20th, 2003 03:06
Punims— did you really do that!??! 🙂 cute idea!
February 20th, 2003 06:15
Mhm. I got the idea from ‘Little House on the Prairie’ where Laura had a snow and molasses party with her whole town.
February 20th, 2003 07:19
hmmm…i bet it would’ve been good with cherry syrup…
oh i never read little house on the prairie (but hey give me s/ credit for finishing r’ millers book ;))